154 Safeguarding Communications, Miriam Rich

[00:00:00] Welcome back everybody to Thoughts On The Social World, Social Work, Podcast I'm Dave Niven.

[00:00:20] As usual it's a pleasure to have your company.

[00:00:25] For the years and there have been, but ten years of this now we've covered lots of aspects

[00:00:31] of safeguarding. Lots of disciplines who are involved with safeguarding and getting

[00:00:36] their taken things and predictions about the future. But we haven't really focused too

[00:00:41] much on those that have to stand and talk about it. The communications experts for all

[00:00:47] the different agencies so whether it's police social services, health education wherever

[00:00:54] situations occur there needs to be people that actually either prepare staff for or in their

[00:01:00] own right. Talk about what's just happened and try and communicate to the public. And today I've

[00:01:07] got a very special guest. Miriam Rich, Miriam is a communications expert consultant, a media

[00:01:16] relations specialist and the last at least couple of decades she's been involved in some of the

[00:01:22] most high profile cases in the UK in terms of response and in terms of communication, advice

[00:01:31] and work to do with it. Welcome Miriam, welcome to the programme.

[00:01:37] Thank you for inviting me. Okay well look I've talked about a little bit about where you're at

[00:01:43] but let's take it back to the beginning. How did you first get involved in professional

[00:01:49] communications? Well that's one I owe to my late father actually because I'd left university without

[00:01:58] a clear direction. I went to work for a charity for a few years which was great but after four or

[00:02:04] five years I started thinking you know more strategically about what I might want to do for a career

[00:02:09] and I really wasn't sure and my dad said to me probably because I never stopped talking as a child.

[00:02:15] I think you'd be quite good in communication so maybe we have a think about PR and after that

[00:02:21] my parents supported me to do a diploma in the evenings. I was obviously working at that time

[00:02:25] but I did a diploma in public relations and that's sort of where it began.

[00:02:32] Well now the first I mean from what I talked to you about and also remember from your biography

[00:02:39] one of the first jobs you had was as I don't call them juniors I don't know but anyway in the press

[00:02:45] office of Scotland yarn is that right? That's right yes that was my first job in communications

[00:02:54] and I joined as an assistant press officer. Now there's a mask on this was the turn of the

[00:02:59] century wasn't it about 99, 2000 and there was a massive issue going on there. What do you just

[00:03:06] tell us about a few of them which people will probably remember and for international listeners maybe

[00:03:11] you just add a little bit for context? Of course well I think what really drew me to the Met police

[00:03:20] I'd always been interested in in in sort of criminal justice issues and the murder of teenager

[00:03:31] Stephen Lawrence who was killed in a racist knife attack in 1993 had really caused a huge deal

[00:03:45] reflection and introspection across the country huge shock and there was a public inquiry that many

[00:03:51] of your listeners may remember and that found the Metropolitan Police to be institutionally racist

[00:03:58] made very many recommendations for the Met to adopt to improve the way it worked with diverse

[00:04:06] communities in London and as you say I was based at New Scotland Yard the headquarters of the

[00:04:11] Metropolitan Police and I was very very interested in understanding whether you know the Met really

[00:04:18] was racist and what that looked like on the inside so I felt very privileged to be able to

[00:04:23] sort of go there and work on that and as you say there were you know there were lots of

[00:04:29] things going on at that time 10 days after I started at New Scotland Yard the there was a big

[00:04:36] rail crash train crash called which was in Paddington became known as the Paddington Rail Crash

[00:04:42] and I attended that which was also a real a very steep learning curve at that time just 10 days

[00:04:49] 10 days by me yeah well I mean there were other things as well but back to the on the Steven

[00:04:56] Lawrence issue because that's just sort of representative to me of an enormous piece of work

[00:05:02] that was like trying to turn an oil tanker and I suspect it absorbed the work of the Met

[00:05:08] communications or a lot of it for many years it really did and that's an excellent analogy

[00:05:15] because when you're thinking about an organisation of you know I think upwards around that time as

[00:05:19] sort of 45,000 50,000 people when you're taking into account both police officers and police staff

[00:05:27] civil servants and others the servants in the police you're thinking about a huge shift in

[00:05:36] culture in practice in thinking and so it was a very interesting time to be involved

[00:05:43] and it's still being said even though I mean we'll get to this later but even though you left

[00:05:48] the Met in 2011 but today it's still kind of dragging on and people are still referring to

[00:05:56] as really as unfinished business aren't they? Yeah it's very difficult to see the situation

[00:06:05] that the Met is in now and whilst I'm sure there have been you know lots of improvements on

[00:06:10] many fronts clearly they are not there yet and there's a lot of work that needs to be done I

[00:06:15] think that that job has been made a lot more difficult by you know the emergence of the internet

[00:06:21] and social media in the interim because obviously when I was there that was really all in its infancy.

[00:06:27] Well you did work at the beginning for the first few years to do with some of the more high profile

[00:06:33] United Kingdom cases that we all in this country remember such as the murders of Holy Wells

[00:06:40] and Jessica Chapman the London nail bomber the disappearance of Madeline McCann and other child

[00:06:47] sexual abuse cases and you're portfolio that you had to deal with included counterterrorism racial

[00:06:54] crime violent crime and you kind of were involved in so many different things with so many different

[00:07:02] people at the Met that in 2006 if I remember my reading correctly you were invited to become

[00:07:12] a founding member of the and head of media I think of the Child Explitation and Online Protection

[00:07:18] Centre in the Metropolitan Police which was created to in response to the explosion of child

[00:07:26] sexual abuse on the internet that was a big change it was a big change I mean I think the first

[00:07:33] thing to say is that all of the cases and issues that you've listed I was very much you know

[00:07:39] though you can imagine there were very many people that I was really lucky to learn from

[00:07:45] they involved huge effort largely unseen by you know the public and rightly so but the responses

[00:07:53] to those kinds of incidents and operations involve a huge number of people and I was learning all

[00:07:58] the way from some really excellent people but yes I left them actually in 2003 for I went to work

[00:08:06] for the National what is now the National Crime Agency was then the National Criminal Intelligence

[00:08:11] Service and in 2006 the Child Exploration and Online Protection Centre was set up with the former

[00:08:20] head of counter-terrorism in Northern Ireland in the what was the Royal Ulster Constabulary at the helm

[00:08:26] and the idea was to bring the principles of counter-terrorism to trying to combat the emerging

[00:08:35] threat to children from social media and the explosion in social media at that time.

[00:08:41] It's a massive area of work still and I hate to say it but almost growing because the

[00:08:49] more that I understand that both law enforcement and those working with victims and survivors

[00:08:55] learn about the horrors that are going on worldwide the more that has to be done to try and counter it

[00:09:05] it's like a continuing leap frog as far as I can understand. Yes it is and I think one of the things

[00:09:13] that has improved since those days and which I think has you know I'd like to think is here to stay

[00:09:20] as the coordination and the cooperation on those kinds of cases the multi-agency approaches

[00:09:26] that were quite unusual at the time that CEO was created and you know I think one of the most

[00:09:32] unusual things it was sort of quite a groundbreaking model at the time is that we were working

[00:09:36] it was it was a the building was encompassed police experts in childcare social workers like

[00:09:47] Dr Kate Richardson who's now head of safeguarding and national choir agency and colleagues have

[00:09:51] heard that come across from the NSPCC at that time experts in education and really very diverse

[00:10:03] range of specialisms all working across desks to try and combat this this this new threat. Well I

[00:10:10] do think multi-agency working has in fact as you say kind of established itself as the best way forward

[00:10:17] since then but it's not taking away from the nature of the scale of the work still is it?

[00:10:24] No it's absolutely enormous and it was even it turned out to be as enormous as it appeared to be

[00:10:31] back in 2006 you know even you know people your listeners might remember that they're sort of

[00:10:37] nascent social media platforms like Bebo and Myspace which were already sort of being well I'd

[00:10:46] like I really infiltrated by. I feel treaty yeah yeah those are the sexual interest in children

[00:10:52] and and children being targeted for grooming and abuse on those and other sites and then obviously

[00:11:00] Facebook kind of coming along and I think once it became very clear through the report abuse button

[00:11:06] that that see up put on those sites and working you know in collaboration with some of those platforms

[00:11:11] to make it easier for children to to report. In fact what you know what was known in the building

[00:11:20] as Target Hardening I mentioned through Jim's counter is backgrounds and that's how they saw

[00:11:24] it was you actually need to empower children to know what's what's safe what's unsafe and how to

[00:11:30] report and that was the that was the game plan. No I mean it's um on the optimistic side right okay

[00:11:39] on the optimistic side it can certainly be argued that even though the volume of work today is

[00:11:45] certainly as much as if not more than it used to be because the more we learn the more we understand

[00:11:52] the more we have to combat abuse but at the same time people are coming forward more now because

[00:12:01] it could be argued that there's a greater trust in the authorities to deal with them sensitively

[00:12:07] and to believe them whereas even 20 years ago there were still that kind of if you like that's

[00:12:13] like dark cloud that a lot of people wouldn't come forward because they think they were they weren't

[00:12:18] going to be believed nothing was going to happen and the whole thing would just completely and

[00:12:22] utterly put a full stock to ruining their lives and that that has begun to change I have seen that

[00:12:29] myself but on the other hand you can argue there's so much now coming out of the woodwork to put

[00:12:36] an analogy on it that um it's exhausting and it's going to carry on for decades and decades we're

[00:12:44] never going to we're never going to combat child abuse completely are we I think it's very difficult

[00:12:50] I'd love to say we we we could but I think you're right I think it's you know the scale of the

[00:12:56] problem makes that very difficult but you you kind of touched on that on something that was at

[00:13:01] the core of our communication strategy at seal at that point which was that we everything was guided

[00:13:07] by a need to reduce the confidence of perpetrators to think that they could offend and target

[00:13:14] and groom children um you know free from consequence whilst also at the same time increasing the

[00:13:21] confidence of children young people to report and adults to report parents you know who who

[00:13:28] came across the fact that their their child or young person for whom they might have had

[00:13:33] responsibility was being groomed and targeted online and and all the people that sort of work

[00:13:37] with children teachers and and so on and see what did a huge amount of work in schools to try and

[00:13:42] increase that but it was very much about increasing the confidence of of potential victims and

[00:13:48] those who supported them and reducing the confidence of perpetrators that they would get away with it

[00:13:54] but I mean I I get your point and I agree with you but the landscape is broad and so hugely in terms

[00:14:01] of what we have to cope with um I mean for example 20 odd years ago it was a matter of combating

[00:14:09] individuals who took opportunities to follow their particular instincts which was to actually

[00:14:15] hurt a child or to get involved with a child but now a huge player of course is organized crime

[00:14:22] worldwide because human trafficking or sexual exploitation of children is big money

[00:14:29] and um they're now major players so that's involved all sort of other strata with law enforcement

[00:14:36] and it's kind of ramped it up hugely wouldn't you see so I completely agree that I'd say the

[00:14:42] landscape has got really very complicated I think those things were perhaps still there and

[00:14:47] you know there was very you know there was a trafficking problem children were being trafficked

[00:14:52] and exploited um well you know for a long time prior to the internet but the sort of

[00:14:59] advent of the internet and the the kind of revolution in digital communications has certainly

[00:15:05] made the job for the police for social workers for everyone involved in trying to combat those

[00:15:10] crimes much more difficult much more complex whilst also you know obviously it's a double edged

[00:15:15] sword that those tactics can also be used against offenders and against organized crime

[00:15:22] okay well let's deal with one of the I don't know what could we call them little elephants in the room

[00:15:29] um a lot of people say on one hand that agencies and organisations who are have the responsibility

[00:15:39] and the statutory duty to protect children when things go wrong what they all do is they just want

[00:15:46] to cover up on the other hand people would say no good comes uh good communications people and

[00:15:56] good organisations don't try and cover up what they try and do is as much as they're able to do

[00:16:02] within the realms of confidentiality and protecting the the kind of identities of children within that

[00:16:09] realm they are they try and be as transparent as possible in order not just on that case but in

[00:16:14] order to show the public that the complexities of their work is that balance is that kind of

[00:16:24] conviction quite in agreement with what you go on your ex colleagues felt I definitely think

[00:16:32] that that's the case that you know I think when an organisation hits the rocks or the reputation is

[00:16:38] threatened you know it's threatened around a safeguarding issue the temptation can be to run and

[00:16:44] hide under the metaphorical duvet and to you know pull the shutters down and just say you know when

[00:16:49] journalists are interested um or you know stakeholders other sort of stakeholders get involved

[00:16:55] whether that's the statute authorities or local community or whoever the temptation is just to say

[00:17:01] there's little as possible um but my view on that would be that actually there's so much more to

[00:17:08] be gained and it's so much obviously ethically and morally the right thing to do to be able to share

[00:17:14] the information that you can share um you know without jeopardising the integrity of of

[00:17:20] people concerned and and you know personal details private details and so on but to certainly

[00:17:27] um you know explain and be transparent and open about what went wrong um what you're doing to fix it

[00:17:35] and how you know what help you might need and and how the situation can be um well no right

[00:17:42] absolutely how can be put right absolutely and of course you're you're you're working in a

[00:17:48] situation there where the default position is to blame somebody and hang them out to dry

[00:17:53] um give them a victim give them somebody that actually uh cause the problem by not doing their job

[00:18:02] correctly um and that's always that's always going to be the case I think within sort of human

[00:18:08] nature but but listen go back a little bit there you mentioned a word reputation

[00:18:15] and that's where in my view I know a lot of people have got doubts and need to hear from people

[00:18:22] like yourself so you've been professionally involved and if you like on the on the good side for quite

[00:18:27] some time because come a comes um plan or media plan within any agency also usually has the tag

[00:18:36] reputation management and therefore people imagine that you're going to go out there to do anything

[00:18:43] you can to preserve the reputation of that organization was that that pressure always was that put on

[00:18:51] you a lot or did you manage to sort of push back um it wasn't put on me a lot but I absolutely

[00:18:59] agree that reputation management has a very dirty ring to it and it can't do and I think it's about

[00:19:04] how it supplied and how you know what your objective is I mean I think if you're looking at an

[00:19:10] organization that's made an honest mistake I mean obviously we're talking sort of hypothetically

[00:19:14] here but if if something's gone wrong um and uh you know the there's the um competence and

[00:19:24] ability of that organization has been called into question and people's confidence in that organization

[00:19:28] are shaken then the consequences can be that whether that's a local authority safeguarding team or

[00:19:35] or uh or a faith group organization or whatever it is um the confidence people's confidence in that

[00:19:43] in that organization can be really calling into question people's you know things get really bad

[00:19:48] people's uh you know jobs can be at risk and so on and so forth so it's not really about um trying

[00:19:56] to save a reputation for reputation sake it's it's about trying to preserve the good things about

[00:20:02] that organization and to acknowledge mistakes and to try and learn and grow and to be really open

[00:20:08] and transparent in the way that things are explained um I think that you know if you're there are

[00:20:15] people who do the kind of communications that are a bit more dark arts and a bit more sort of um

[00:20:21] you know a bit more surreptitious especially involving you know the internet and that can be done

[00:20:27] on social media and so on but I never that's not something that attracts me or um or that I

[00:20:33] would want to get involved in I see communications much more as a tool to share the positive

[00:20:40] work that's been done are that's being done around safeguarding and the sort of improvements

[00:20:44] that organizations want might be making that they want to share to increase trust and

[00:20:49] co-occurrence in them now for the last 10 years ish 11 maybe I don't know you've worked in the private

[00:20:58] sector forming your own company and you've been involved in um helping public and private sector

[00:21:06] clients um schools universities law enforcement charities um training and guidance

[00:21:16] in how to deal with the media because I suspect everybody has to understand now that 99% of most

[00:21:24] people's opinion and information comes from some form of media or other whether it's written media

[00:21:30] broadcast media whether it's social media or whatever but that's where people get their ideas

[00:21:35] from and if you're not in that shop window arguing your case you're very very vulnerable with

[00:21:43] the first glitch that comes up is that a fear of assessment yes I think so I think you know the more

[00:21:51] the general public understand your area of work before a crisis happens so for example you know

[00:21:59] to use the you know the parallel of policing the more that the public understands the challenges

[00:22:05] faced by the police at an individual level the more they understand the complexities of the work

[00:22:10] and that sometimes things aren't always as they seem they're a bit more nuanced and I think the more

[00:22:15] they understand the people who go into that work the police officers and then applying that across

[00:22:20] to social workers as well you know the vast vast majority of people who go into those frontline roles

[00:22:26] in social work and and very many other you know they they go in it they go into it for all the right

[00:22:32] reasons because they want to do good because they want to improve things because they want to make

[00:22:36] a contribution in their own way and they find it you know that's very that brings them satisfaction

[00:22:42] and I think those are the things that can often be forgotten in the sort of on the eye of a storm

[00:22:46] I'm fairly well said I think yes well look let's talk about you in the in the private sector for

[00:22:52] the moment and remind people that on the front page of this podcast I'll be putting all your details

[00:22:58] down about how to contact you reminding people what you've done before they listen to the podcast

[00:23:04] but also how to get in touch with you and the sort of things that you might be available for

[00:23:08] and the things that you'd like to draw people's attention too so all of that just to tell people

[00:23:13] listening will be on the front page here so maps is a final few minutes Miriam

[00:23:23] where is the world going in terms of actually being able to stand up and talk to this kind of

[00:23:32] behemoth that is the media in a way that they don't have to be frightened about

[00:23:39] they don't have to they'll have some understanding and they can show the transparency and truth

[00:23:45] because telling the truth is the absolute underlying principle of anybody talking to the media

[00:23:51] so how do we actually continue to go about improving the way that those working with vulnerable children

[00:24:02] get their message out? Well it's a big question I think that as you the starting point as you've

[00:24:10] said is to is to always tell the truth I think the second point is to feel confident

[00:24:16] that you have a positive story to tell but actually you know the vast majority if

[00:24:24] as a social worker, as a social work team you know in whatever environment you're working in

[00:24:30] you have a positive story to tell you have a story of interest to media and therefore you don't

[00:24:36] need to be afraid of media yes there are you know there are journalists and occasions where

[00:24:42] that can feel that sort of interest can feel very threatening but the vast majority of journalists

[00:24:47] that I've worked with are simply representing their audience, so their listeners their readers

[00:24:52] and they're representing the interests of that particular branch of the general public or sector

[00:25:00] who you know is interested in that outlet and to that end most media interest can be a really

[00:25:09] positive thing it gives you the chance if you're if you're sort of proactive and you're open to

[00:25:15] sharing your successes and to perhaps letting media in a little bit see what you're doing

[00:25:22] you know there can be risks attached and that needs to be carefully managed with you know press

[00:25:28] office if you work in an organisation with a press office or just really thought through

[00:25:33] prior to that but those that work it can be done and it can go a long way to sort of increasing

[00:25:38] public awareness and understanding of what you're doing. Well Luke I mean perhaps getting into the

[00:25:45] final couple of minutes here but all my working life I've argued against especially local authorities

[00:25:52] I've got to be honest who seem to confuse confidentiality with secrecy and so there's very

[00:26:00] limited opportunities for those in safeguarding social work and job protection whatever

[00:26:07] to be able to talk about successes and that to my view is how you balance things we've all seen the

[00:26:14] drama of some of the high profile cases that come where unfortunately a child has been seriously

[00:26:19] injured or died or whatever and that's always hitting the headlines but never do we hear the 99

[00:26:27] percent of others that are being protected are being interrupted and so forth actually I'm

[00:26:35] hitting the headlines because I'm sure you would be aware of the fact that nobody here has

[00:26:40] ever seen a headline that said social worker does good job. So I think effectively it's a matter of

[00:26:51] the comms professionals of which you are a very good example kind of constantly working to actually

[00:26:59] help balance, help the world of information to do with child abuse be more balanced and so that

[00:27:07] people can have a much better idea of what's going on around them and learn and have their awareness

[00:27:15] raised at the same time so as a sort of final message to them well you're now a very experienced

[00:27:21] person in this world so people let's see the Miriam that started out in the mid 90s or whenever it

[00:27:29] was you know what would you say to that Miriam today? Oh and and you would give your head for that one

[00:27:38] well I say I think that the structures in that are in place you talked about the difference

[00:27:46] between confidentiality and secrecy. I think structures that are in place that you know for example

[00:27:53] the local authorities as you said which I suppose are at the you know the frontline of perhaps

[00:27:57] opportunity to raise awareness of the 99.9 percent of success stories that you refer to they don't

[00:28:05] always lend themselves very well to doing that work because they're firefighting you know they're

[00:28:11] firefighting every day the press office there on all sort of the other things that are going might be

[00:28:16] going wrong in the local authority or other priorities so I think it could they're probably our

[00:28:20] challenges around having the time and resource to make those cases and then of course if something

[00:28:27] does go wrong the the things that kick in you know the reviews and and so forth sometimes obviously

[00:28:33] criminal justice process that kicks in precludes the kind of communications that could help people

[00:28:40] to understand the situation better and in a way by then it's it's too late but the Miriam what

[00:28:45] would the Miriam then would say? Well what was a Miriam there at that time who was wanting to go

[00:28:52] into PR? It was wanting to go into media relations what sort of message would you say to them?

[00:28:57] That's really when I was trying to get out would you be encouraging?

[00:29:00] I would be I consider myself so privileged and so grateful with the day that that was suggested

[00:29:07] to me by my dad because I have really loved every minute of it and I think the reason why is

[00:29:14] because I continue to learn I learn from all the amazing colleagues that I worked with at

[00:29:19] see-op and beyond and that you know gave me the opportunity to combine those two really strong

[00:29:25] areas of interest for me the the media relations and public relations communication side with

[00:29:32] child protection and safeguarding I feel very privileged to continue to work in that area and I

[00:29:38] really love learning from everyone that I come across so I would say absolutely grab it with both

[00:29:45] hands and go for it. Okay well Miriam I think your dad would be very proud

[00:29:52] and I wish more people in the cons world had the degree of understanding and sensitivity that

[00:30:00] you have demonstrated so Miriam Rich thank you ever so much for being my guest today on social

[00:30:06] world podcast and I wish you all the best in the future. Well that's very kind it's been an absolute

[00:30:11] pleasure thank you for inviting me